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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
443
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Posted - 2013.10.17 15:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Looking good, but CCP pls; - Give us the more complex one as soon as possible. One for alchemy and one to steal resources of our choosing. - Will it send notifications to the POS owners?
BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
443
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Posted - 2013.10.17 16:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vatek wrote:Making these 20m3 in size and having no limit on how many can be placed on one tower is a horrible design decision. One pilot in a blockade runner could seed a nullsec region with hundreds of these and shut down all moon mining income until the owners of the towers show up to pos gun them all to death.
Then they can just go get more and do it again and again and again.
Exactly and it is perfect. Also, CCP make sure that the API doesn't tell when a siphon is sucking resources from the POS. BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
443
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 16:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
pmchem wrote:For a moment, let us imagine the future equilibrium for this gameplay element:
Guy with cargo-expanded covert cloaking ship and a bunch of siphons is AFK cloaking in a system with a R32 or R64 moon. He un-AFKs at a random time once or twice a day, drops or scoops siphons. Meanwhile, random griefer with a bubble-immune fast-warp interceptor flies by a dozen moons dropping siphons, including this one.
POS owner has nothing to defeat AFK cloaking or interceptors. They detect unexpected silo levels as their real life schedule allows and log in an alt, gun the POS, and shoot the siphons. In the meantime he's lost all his goo production for a big chunk of the day because there were 8 siphons attached to the POS -- they're so cheap, they're just a fire-and-forget griefer tool. There's no 'timer' at which both forces must meet to determine the fate of the gameplay element, so it's entirely async and the two sides never interact in realtime.
Result: higher moon goo prices, more AFK cloaky alts (which honestly seems to be the sort of terrible gameplay CCP is encouraging these days), nobody particularly having fun unless you enjoy griefing (which, hey, it's EVE -- many do). But nobody is rewarded for spending time developing or living in a system ... only for random, short logins to push butan. It's poor gameplay.
Rubicon: burnt farms and salted fields.
Or, actually live in the space where you are holding POSs and have patrols doing their jobs.
BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
443
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 16:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aryth wrote:I do love to call the ball and then smug later about being right. So let me explain how this plays out to you.
Everyone will transfer valuable moons to closer holders who are then taxed or rent increased to offset this. So null blocs won't be impacted that rent or that have good C&C. However, this also means everyone is going to enter into doughnut pacts and you are going to watch null blue up and stagnate even more so than it is.
This is a terribly flawed design. We withheld judgement when this was first released thinking you would do this one right and it was an interesting mechanic and had the possibility for some fun interactions. You got it wrong on balance with multiple siphons and costs.
Can't be more blue than it is now :D And probably renters won't rent moons because people like me will suck their POSs 24/7 and they wont't be able to do anything about it. Big entities will have to live in the area around POSs if they won't most of the moon goo from now on.
BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
446
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 16:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:What level of "monitoring your pos" are you envisioning players should need to perform? Let's assume that you check it once every eight hours (which is rather reasonable: you check it when you wake up, when you go to bed, and also once during the day).
That's already a fairly irritating level of checking your pos. That means that in those eight hours, 20% of your output will be destroyed irrevocably. And if the player is paying attention (because they can pick when they start the siphoning) they get about 80% of your pos output for eight hours, for 20m isk.
This feature is poorly thought out. It's poorly balanced. It's another one of CCP's hamfisted nerfs of 0.0 that should go hand in hand with buffs of 0.0 that are pushed off until "SOON(TM)". It doesn't reward people who use their space: it merely penalizes them a little bit less. It doesn't actually place the people siphoning at risk physically or economically: the siphons make it hilariously easy to break even.
It's a neat feature. It would work well if it was balanced properly, and if there were buffs for people who DO live in their space. But it's sort of half-assed and fits into the general CCP philosophy of "nerf 0.0 now, buff SOON(TM)" and then get distracted and naturally never get to the buff.
Ahm... you take for granted that the attackers play 24/7 Also CFC can field 3k players, 1 guy doesn't have to check all of them. Spread the duty. Sry, but from now on you will have to play the game to get isk. No more passive farming.
BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
447
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 16:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:Aryth wrote:I do love to call the ball and then smug later about being right. So let me explain how this plays out to you.
Everyone will transfer valuable moons to closer holders who are then taxed or rent increased to offset this. So null blocs won't be impacted that rent or that have good C&C. However, this also means everyone is going to enter into doughnut pacts and you are going to watch null blue up and stagnate even more so than it is.
This is a terribly flawed design. We withheld judgement when this was first released thinking you would do this one right and it was an interesting mechanic and had the possibility for some fun interactions. You got it wrong on balance with multiple siphons and costs. Can't be more blue than it is now :D And probably renters won't rent moons because people like me will suck their POSs 24/7 and they wont't be able to do anything about it. Big entities will have to live in the area around POSs if they won't most of the moon goo from now on. If they won't live around, than no moon goo :DDD Totally blue with n3 that exists to destroy us, good point there
You won't be blue with them even after this change..lol BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
447
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 16:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
pmchem wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:pmchem wrote:For a moment, let us imagine the future equilibrium for this gameplay element:
Guy with cargo-expanded covert cloaking ship and a bunch of siphons is AFK cloaking in a system with a R32 or R64 moon. He un-AFKs at a random time once or twice a day, drops or scoops siphons. Meanwhile, random griefer with a bubble-immune fast-warp interceptor flies by a dozen moons dropping siphons, including this one.
POS owner has nothing to defeat AFK cloaking or interceptors. They detect unexpected silo levels as their real life schedule allows and log in an alt, gun the POS, and shoot the siphons. In the meantime he's lost all his goo production for a big chunk of the day because there were 8 siphons attached to the POS -- they're so cheap, they're just a fire-and-forget griefer tool. There's no 'timer' at which both forces must meet to determine the fate of the gameplay element, so it's entirely async and the two sides never interact in realtime.
Result: higher moon goo prices, more AFK cloaky alts (which honestly seems to be the sort of terrible gameplay CCP is encouraging these days), nobody particularly having fun unless you enjoy griefing (which, hey, it's EVE -- many do). But nobody is rewarded for spending time developing or living in a system ... only for random, short logins to push butan. It's poor gameplay.
Rubicon: burnt farms and salted fields. Or, actually live in the space where you are holding POSs and have patrols doing their jobs. oh wait I get to laugh in your face directly, neat! You're suggesting that the POS owner has muitiple people logged in to fleet and on-grid at POS 23 hours a day in order to defeat one individual who appears at a random time once or twice a day. So, let's say 69-character-hours per day played in order to defeat 3-character-minutes. That is surely good gameplay and sustainable! Let's also mention the fact that the attackers have d-scan and local and can check for traps before even attempting to launch the siphon! Or that if you're using a covert cloaker or Rubicon interceptor you're amazingly difficult to kill anyway unless totally incompetent, even if landing on grid with hostiles! In short you're making a terrible argument and do not know how this game plays out.
Than you won't hold lowsec POSs or those in NPC nullsec. Sry bro for your delicious tears, but you are to stretched. And tnx for the moon goo BALEX, lowsec pirate corp. BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
447
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 16:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
xttz wrote:If you want this to be used for it's intended purpose (rather than just aimless griefing by rich players), do this:
1) Price small siphons around 30mil, with 50k EHP 2) Limit them so that a maximum of 2 can be anchored on a single grid, but full ones don't count toward that limit 3) Add an alert mail to the pos owner once the siphon is 50% full 4) DON'T **** WITH THE API
Just lol...
Ohhhh...My first 10 urns are capped. Need more for these Goons tears. BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
447
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 16:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Thank you for the clairification. Now I can lean back and enjoy POS owner tears as they now have to do more than stop by once a week to spend 3 minutes interacting with their ISK printing press. The issue here is that there are only two real forms of alliance income: moons, and renters. Renters have lead to a terribly boring 0.0 where every few months we relentlessly sodomize N3, who then retreats back to their bad space that's all rented out. All this does is make renters even more necessary, which makes it even more necessary to own all the bad regions to rent them out instead of those serving as alliance incubators.
Well from now on, in order to conquer most of the nullsec, you will need to change the strategy of blobbing everyone.
BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
452
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Dagda Morr wrote:Something that has been missed - the best organised large groups in 0.0 are the very groups that are able to mass spam regions on the hour with these. This isn't a tool to help the small guy take a poke at the big guys - it's not going to generate content, it's just going to make the dullest thing in eve even duller.....
You are wrong. Small entities will have now a chance to get some moon goo, by stealing it. As it is now, small entities can't have any goo at all. BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
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Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
452
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Posted - 2013.10.17 17:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote: Just lol...
Ohhhh...My first 10 urns are capped. Need more for these Goons tears.
I believe this post, and the Marlona posts, make my point quite well. There's no solid arguments about why these are well-balanced being presented. The sole argument being presented is the same one we always see when a goon is correctly pointing out something that's unbalanced: some nitwit saying, well, the above. You saw it with blap titans, for example.
I posted quite few reasons. Just read around, You will find then :DD BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
452
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
xttz wrote:It should be a bit of a red flag when CCP come up with the cheapest griefing tool in EVE for years, and GoonSwarm are the ones saying "hang on that's a bit much".
What exactly do you lot think this is going to do to the Tech 2 market when virtually no one is getting moon materials without interruption? We are actually in by far the best position, in that we have a bunch of newbies who will run around finding and killing these things for a bounty. Can smaller alliances and corps say that?
The Tech 2 materials market has just been handed back to big alliances. We're going to grief the **** out of everyone if this remains unchanged, and make bank while doing so.
Smaller alliances and corps don't own moons. Some exception here and there BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
454
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Posted - 2013.10.17 18:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Gilbaron wrote:Alright:
this is a MASSIVE pain in the arse for corporations that do not span multiple timezones. everyone who is in a non-english speaking corporation has some serious organisation to do to get towers watched. Not cool. This is manageable for us (100% german corp) since we also speak english and can easily coordinate with other english speaking groups. The russians that often don't really speak english have a problem. a big one.
instead of introducing some interesting timer mechanic that could actually lead to some fights you made something that is going to be a massive pain in the arse for people in leadership positions. typical :CCP:
i was excited for this, mainly because i really hoped that it could lead to some interesting small scale pvp actions. but with the current implementation there is absolutely NO reason to interact with these things with anything that is not a T2 industrial with a covert ops cloak or a POS gun.
hahaha look at these goon tears so delicio hey wait
Mynna just gtffo from CSM u biased piece.... BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
457
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Posted - 2013.10.17 18:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kismeteer wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:Smaller alliances and corps don't own moons. Some exception here and there A lot of smaller alliances and corps do run reactions though.
Yeah Null alliances alts. All others still fit in the exception. BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
461
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Posted - 2013.10.17 18:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
- Big nullsec alliances crying...check - Small entities joying...check
Feature is good to go :D BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
466
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 19:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Saya Loyd wrote:if you done GÇïGÇïit, you lose ~ 10 accounts Goodbye eve ...
Your stuff pls? Or at least position of your POSs, so i can steal from them till they go offline, pls? BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
471
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Posted - 2013.10.17 20:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:Uppsy Daisy wrote:Yes, of course you are. Like the time CCP messed up Factional Warfare and you realised that the new rules could be exploited to make huge amounts of money. You called CCP out straight away and told them it was not good for the game didn't you? Oh no. You didn't. You exploited it for trillions of ISK.. How is that "promoting things that are good for EVE, even at our detriment."? Rule of thumb: Anything that can be used by small, incompetent corporations to hurt large alliances can be used by competent, well organized, large alliances to completely trash entire segments of the economy and drive small corporations out of business. +á You've been warned this time.
You got 3 coalitions in nullsec. 2 of them don't have much of space and will guard much easily their POSs than the 3rd that is a bit stretched (you know which is the 3rd). Now add to the equations lowsec and 0.0 Npc entities and the fact that the CFC is most hated of all those 3.
BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
474
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
TBH i have to say that Goonies are right on few points. The siphons are not that cost effective. Siphons: - Should cost less (like 1 million) - Be able to steal resources of our choosing (even from the silo) - Be able to steal reactions from the start
This would be the right balance. CCP please take note. Siphons are not worht as they are now. They need buffs from the go. BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
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